In the Sept. 20, 2024, episode of “A Lively Experiment,” moderator Jim Hummel and his panelists discussed the ramifications of halting the demolition of the Washington Bridge. Panelists also analyzed the latest twists and turns in the race for president.
Hummel was joined by Joe Larisa, an attorney and former chief of staff to former Rhode Island Gov. Lincoln Almond; Steph Machado, a Boston Globe reporter and weekly contributor to “Rhode Island PBS Weekly”; and Rob Horowitz, a Democratic strategist.
This discussion has been condensed and edited for clarity. Watch the full episode of “A Lively Experiment” here.
The latest chapter in the Washington Bridge saga was the abrupt halt of the span’s demolition. The Rhode Island Department of Transportation told the demolition crews to stop working. Officials said they needed to preserve evidence in the legal case against the 13 companies that are defendants in a lawsuit. State officials said those companies contributed to the deterioration of the Washington Bridge’s westbound lanes.
A ‘gaping’ hole in the story
Steph Machado said the state DOT sent letters to the defendants and gave them a deadline to inspect the bridge before it was demolished.
“They sent letters to the defendants, gave them a deadline to come inspect the bridge before it got knocked down,” Machado said. “So this was very much thought of in advance.
“That was back when the case was being run by the outside lawyers. It has now been taken over by the Attorney General.”
Machado added that there was “some sort of gaping hole” in the story, adding that her calls, emails and inquiries to Attorney General Peter Neronha have not been returned.
“Some of the companies did inspect the bridge before the demolition started, some of the defendants did,” she said. “My assumption is that someone asked, ‘Hey, can you pause this so we can make sure that we’re preserving the evidence?’
“It’s just that no one is giving us any explanation about what prompted this change in plans.”
Larisa said he thought some of the defendants wanted more time.
“And rather than risk what’s called spoliation of evidence and having the state’s case dismissed or curtailed because the defendants didn’t have enough time, they just decided to give ’em more time,” he said. “And on the issue of this secrecy, there’s been a lot of questions about where’s the DOT actions against its own people for their negligence in any of this.
“And why haven’t we seen that? Well, there’s a good reason, because you’d basically be making the defendants’ case for them.”
Horowitz said he could not define spoliation, calling it “above my pay grade.” But he agreed with Larisa that the way the case has been approached is “putting the legal stuff ahead of the public’s right to know.”
“And still, in my view, much more important to get to the bottom of, are there systemic problems with the Department of Transportation, given the sheer amount of money involved, and much more important to be open and disclosive with the public,” he added. “And if we recover a little less money in a $14 billion budget, that’s the price you pay.
“These kinds of cases, when it’s an opioid case or a tobacco case that don’t involve the direct functioning of state government, they make a lot of sense. In this, I’m not saying they shouldn’t sue, but I think we are putting the recovery of money, and also the search for a scapegoat, candidly, in the governor’s interest ahead of the public interest here and the public’s right to know.”
Larisa characterized the situation as another instance where “you can’t get straight answers out of anybody,” adding that it hurts more than the credibility concerning the bridge case.
“It has really hurt the credibility of the McKee Administration broadly and the Attorney General, respectfully, who I think (have) done a very good job, needs to be careful to not get folded into all this.”
“If you had told me that nine months after the bridge shutdown, we would still have absolutely zero information about whose fault it is and what exactly, we don’t even know what happened, we don’t even know what caused it, I wouldn’t have believed you,” Machado said. “So the legal case has really caused the state to believe that they can’t release any information about what happened.
“And you know, hopefully they get a lot of money out of it because they really are putting the legal case ahead of the public’s right to know.”
The country now has ‘a real choice’
The panelists then turned their attention to the presidential race between Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump.
Horowitz said the race has “worked out very well” for the country and for the Democratic Party.
“It went (from) a race where President Joe Biden was likely to lose. (You) can never tell ’cause Donald Trump was unpopular, still is unpopular, unfavorable is about 53, 54%, but likely to lose to a race where, today, it’s gonna be very close,” he said. “You’d rather be Kamala Harris, and you’d rather be (that) than Joe Biden.
“And Kamala Harris has distinguished herself as a really good candidate. And the country now has a real choice.”
Larisa used an analogy about Rhode Island’s controversial bridge to characterize the presidential race.
“This race is about as close as the car next to you on the Washington Bridge,” he said. “And I think it’s gonna come down to that at the end.
“Tim Russert famously said, ‘Florida, Florida, Florida.’ And was right in the Bush-Gore election. This one is Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania.
Larisa added that it was inevitable that the candidate who carries the Keystone State will win the election. He pointed to Harris and Trump spending a great deal of time in Pennsylvania — and with good reason.
“And the sad part is for democracy is, if that is true, we’re not gonna have a winner on election night,” Larisa said. “Pennsylvania’s gonna be razor thin.
“I remember in Philadelphia last election, poll watchers wanted to see inside what they were doing, and they put blinds up, fueled a bunch of conspiracy theories,” he added. “We can’t have that this time.
“I hope Pennsylvania’s on the ball, and gonna be really transparent ’cause we’re probably not gonna have a winner on election night. (It’s) still too early to tell that, but we really need to have everybody feel comfortable with how this is going.”
Horowitz agreed that Pennsylvania was the most important state in the election, although he conceded that Harris “has some paths” even if she loses the state. He added that he would not be surprised if Harris won Georgia, North Carolina — or both states.
“ But she may not. It’s close,” Horowitz said. “I would say this, the reason why we had conspiracy theories running around the last election wasn’t that one poll watcher in Pennsylvania, it was Donald Trump who spent three or four months trying to overturn the results of a free and fair elections.”
Horowitz said he believed Trump would follow that same playbook if he loses the general election, no matter what the outcome is in Pennsylvania.
“‘Cause he has, there’s only two options, is, ‘I win or it means it was rigged.’ Those are the two options he knows,” Horowitz said. “We’re gonna be in this movie afterwards, probably even if Harris wins relatively convincingly.”
Hummel referenced a poll that said 46% of Republicans believe that if the former president lose, the 2024 election was rigged.
“So we have totally gone off the rails,” Hummel said.
Machado said the public should thank poll workers because they have a difficult job and are “being attacked all over the country.”
“I think it’s a really tough job to have right now,” she said. “Some of them are volunteers, I think some of them are paid.
“But it really is, I think, a difficult time to be an election worker because of all of the, you know, people that have already prejudged that something nefarious is going on.”
While Pennsylvania is the plum state both candidates are chasing, Horowitz believes that Harris “has opened up” North Carolina — a state that has not “gone blue” for president since 2008 — and Georgia.
And Trump’s campaign team understands this, he said.
“If Trump can cut her off of two of those states, he’s gonna win,” Horowitz said. “Pennsylvania, (Harris has) gotta take the other two.”
